From the DMs: "How do you feel being back in the US after a month in Finland?" This journey was my most transformative yet & this is how I plan to further change my life.
I really look forward to reading about the Finnish parenting solutions you've come up with! Having spent several stints abroad in my 20s, I still dream about raising a family in Europe.
We left our beloved San Francisco for sunny San Diego (South Park) 3 years ago, and though I miss the energy of urban living, we've experienced some benefits. For example, I can bike my girls to drop off. My daughter is enrolled in pre-kindergarten at our wonderful public neighborhood elementary school. (I admit there are endless emails, abysmal lunch offerings, and indoor recesses when it drizzles...) My youngest is at a reasonably priced part-time nanny share with 2 other toddlers. She'll start at the forest-style school her sister attended (also within biking distance) in the fall. If we choose full time, it will be $1700/month (healthy snacks included, but not lunch).
We don't do too many extracurriculars, but some (soccer and ceramics) have been within biking distance. To my dismay, we do have to get on typical Southern California highways for longer hikes or beach days.
I was laid off last year and haven't yet been able to bring myself to try re-entering the corporate world. But we've decided to continue with the part-time childcare. I use the time in the mornings to write my Substack, take online courses, exercise, or run errands. I swear this set-up is the secret to not feeling terribly burnt out or bitter as a full-time U.S. mom.
But I I have to admit that I have complicated feelings and guilt about not currently earning an income and for taking advantage of childcare.
I loved hearing your a story! I'd say you have done it - you have hacked the American system, and both bought yourself - and found suitable options - for a Nordic-type motherhood.
As for the guilt - I'm guessing - and I could be wrong - that you didn't have a very long parental leaves with your kids? Did you know that in Sweden: "Parents receive 480 days of parental leave for a child. These days can be taken in full or in part until the child reaches the age of 12 or has completed the fifth year of school." In essence, in Sweden you would have had 480 business days of parental leave for your two children and seems like you are enjoying that now! Along with being creative and building something.
Also, in Finland, the daycare (which are more like very high-end play-based and outdoorsy preschools) are available to everyone no matter what the family income; your payment varies based on the current income. So there, you'd have access to childcare and your kids could benefit no matter what--or alternatively, up to 3 yrs old, you can be paid (not much, but still) to be home with the kids.
I have heard that in some pockets of California what you describe (and what also sounds dreamy to me) is possible! Keep enjoying and holding onto that balance --and when you feel you have more bandwidth, then you can take on more.
Considering the parental leave Sweden offers helps me reframe my situation and feel less guilt — thank you!
I've also been thinking more about how the U.S. offers generally higher salaries with lower taxes than Europe, and a segment of the population could theoretically afford to "buy" (at least some of) the Nordic parenting experience we covet.
But spending extra income on additional childcare and support is so counter-cultural here — somehow feeling self-indulgent, extravagant, or lazy.
Instead, parents put the money toward a bigger house, a nicer car, trips, restaurants, and the like. Or (like us) they feel the responsible thing to do is invest more aggressively toward retirement and college, keeping their family's security and future top of mind.
We say we value one thing, but we do another. This has given me something to ponder as we make our next financial decisions!
My husband and I have 3 children in a suburb outside of Chicago. We hired a nanny when we had our first because I commuted an hour and my husband travels for work. Prior to that I had researched regular and home daycares and none of them opened early enough for me to get to work on time. Unfortunately after 12 years our nanny passed away. We have a daughter with autism that requires support with daily living tasks so we still need help despite my kids getting older. I have now quit my teaching job of 23 years because it is too hard to find reliable help.
Wow, that's an incredibly tough situation. And also, a bummer that there wasn't more flexibility with the teaching opportunities. I'm not sure what would happen in this situation in Finland, but what I do know is that families are not all on their own. There's this idea that in the US "you create your life!" but when it comes to family life, it's not always only up to oneself and that's when equity comes in. I'm sending your family hugs!
I’m fascinated by your perspective. The way you approach your views definitely ends up in the same place I see it- yes- in the MASSIVE US there are many different regions which people have to chose to live for what the lifestyle they want and we are responsible for curating that. This is not NO equity for woman and there are a lot of families living quite well but they are not the ones on social media. We are all from so many different places the diversity of cultures brings this “issue”. We are not a homogeneous culture and don’t want the same things. Finland is 5.5 million people- fewer people than the AREA I am from. You can absolutely find a region in the US that has suits this lifestyle and you will simply use the money you may have from higher earnings and lower taxes to achieve the lifestyle you want. The first thing I believe people should shift perspective on is seeing the US as one place. The single state I am from has enough diversity in cultures from region to region to be 3-4 European countries. It’s just not the same. Some of the experiences you have mentioned involve things I have never heard of. Perhaps you would find a different part of the US better for you. I have so many thoughts on this topic and feel strongly social media has made it harder for moms in the US. Unrealistic expectations in our faces all the time - a lot of the struggle is internal.
Thanks for participating in this conversation! The point of this all is to have a healthy debates:-) To clarify what I mean by equity - I understand that the way I think about it could be different from how you think about it - I'm talking about support structures set up by the government and states and cities that level the playing field for moms so we - and our children - all have access to opportunities & choices. And equality and rights guaranteed by law. So I'm not arguing that US has no equity, that's just a fact. For example: the only other countries without federal guarantees for paid maternity leave are Papua New Guinea, Micronesia, the Marshall Islands, Nauru, Palau, and Tonga. US is also the only country in the world that hasn't ratified UN's Rights of the Child treaty. However, if one accepts that and doesn't expect anything (i.e. equity as just given), then the conversation changes - in a transactional society, can we then buy that? what would it cost? where can we find it? This is where it gets really interesting. Who has managed to hack it, where and how did they find what they needed, and how did they managed to achieve balance, bandwidth and freedom of choice? I would love to hear more about how you or people you know have managed to get there (if you feel like you are there) and what do you think is a realistic or unrealistic expectation?
I’m an American who, almost a decade ago now, returned to the US from Stockholm with four young children (born in Sweden.) I never would have expected to experience culture shock in my country of birth but it was like stepping into a different (at times nightmarish) reality- the hardest period of my life. There is much to love here- particularly the creative, open minded, can-do people - but, if honest, the quality of life for our whole family diminished so significantly, it does not make sense to stay. Thanks for bringing light to some of these issues, it’s important 🙏
Hi Katie! Thanks so much for sharing that. I really see what you have experienced. I had the opposite shock: I went to live in Finland for a semester with my hubs and kids, and my first thought was, why didn't anyone tell me you could live like this (as a mom)?!! I also agree with you that there's a lot of good - like you said, the people - but for us to stay in the US, I feel like I don't want to "accept" the diminished quality of life. (I think that feeling has a lot to do with freedom in general for mothers and freedom of choice and just general ease of raising children in the Nordics, once you experience that, you can't not know what could be possible). If the only way to get it is transactional, I want to then buy it:-) But the cost... ? I;m not sure what it would be yet!! What are you thinking in terms of moving back? Staying a bit longer or already planning the move? PS. Sweden is definitely the leader and also Finland's inspiration in the best family policies in the world.
I really look forward to reading about the Finnish parenting solutions you've come up with! Having spent several stints abroad in my 20s, I still dream about raising a family in Europe.
We left our beloved San Francisco for sunny San Diego (South Park) 3 years ago, and though I miss the energy of urban living, we've experienced some benefits. For example, I can bike my girls to drop off. My daughter is enrolled in pre-kindergarten at our wonderful public neighborhood elementary school. (I admit there are endless emails, abysmal lunch offerings, and indoor recesses when it drizzles...) My youngest is at a reasonably priced part-time nanny share with 2 other toddlers. She'll start at the forest-style school her sister attended (also within biking distance) in the fall. If we choose full time, it will be $1700/month (healthy snacks included, but not lunch).
We don't do too many extracurriculars, but some (soccer and ceramics) have been within biking distance. To my dismay, we do have to get on typical Southern California highways for longer hikes or beach days.
I was laid off last year and haven't yet been able to bring myself to try re-entering the corporate world. But we've decided to continue with the part-time childcare. I use the time in the mornings to write my Substack, take online courses, exercise, or run errands. I swear this set-up is the secret to not feeling terribly burnt out or bitter as a full-time U.S. mom.
But I I have to admit that I have complicated feelings and guilt about not currently earning an income and for taking advantage of childcare.
I loved hearing your a story! I'd say you have done it - you have hacked the American system, and both bought yourself - and found suitable options - for a Nordic-type motherhood.
As for the guilt - I'm guessing - and I could be wrong - that you didn't have a very long parental leaves with your kids? Did you know that in Sweden: "Parents receive 480 days of parental leave for a child. These days can be taken in full or in part until the child reaches the age of 12 or has completed the fifth year of school." In essence, in Sweden you would have had 480 business days of parental leave for your two children and seems like you are enjoying that now! Along with being creative and building something.
Also, in Finland, the daycare (which are more like very high-end play-based and outdoorsy preschools) are available to everyone no matter what the family income; your payment varies based on the current income. So there, you'd have access to childcare and your kids could benefit no matter what--or alternatively, up to 3 yrs old, you can be paid (not much, but still) to be home with the kids.
I have heard that in some pockets of California what you describe (and what also sounds dreamy to me) is possible! Keep enjoying and holding onto that balance --and when you feel you have more bandwidth, then you can take on more.
Considering the parental leave Sweden offers helps me reframe my situation and feel less guilt — thank you!
I've also been thinking more about how the U.S. offers generally higher salaries with lower taxes than Europe, and a segment of the population could theoretically afford to "buy" (at least some of) the Nordic parenting experience we covet.
But spending extra income on additional childcare and support is so counter-cultural here — somehow feeling self-indulgent, extravagant, or lazy.
Instead, parents put the money toward a bigger house, a nicer car, trips, restaurants, and the like. Or (like us) they feel the responsible thing to do is invest more aggressively toward retirement and college, keeping their family's security and future top of mind.
We say we value one thing, but we do another. This has given me something to ponder as we make our next financial decisions!
My husband and I have 3 children in a suburb outside of Chicago. We hired a nanny when we had our first because I commuted an hour and my husband travels for work. Prior to that I had researched regular and home daycares and none of them opened early enough for me to get to work on time. Unfortunately after 12 years our nanny passed away. We have a daughter with autism that requires support with daily living tasks so we still need help despite my kids getting older. I have now quit my teaching job of 23 years because it is too hard to find reliable help.
Wow, that's an incredibly tough situation. And also, a bummer that there wasn't more flexibility with the teaching opportunities. I'm not sure what would happen in this situation in Finland, but what I do know is that families are not all on their own. There's this idea that in the US "you create your life!" but when it comes to family life, it's not always only up to oneself and that's when equity comes in. I'm sending your family hugs!
I’m fascinated by your perspective. The way you approach your views definitely ends up in the same place I see it- yes- in the MASSIVE US there are many different regions which people have to chose to live for what the lifestyle they want and we are responsible for curating that. This is not NO equity for woman and there are a lot of families living quite well but they are not the ones on social media. We are all from so many different places the diversity of cultures brings this “issue”. We are not a homogeneous culture and don’t want the same things. Finland is 5.5 million people- fewer people than the AREA I am from. You can absolutely find a region in the US that has suits this lifestyle and you will simply use the money you may have from higher earnings and lower taxes to achieve the lifestyle you want. The first thing I believe people should shift perspective on is seeing the US as one place. The single state I am from has enough diversity in cultures from region to region to be 3-4 European countries. It’s just not the same. Some of the experiences you have mentioned involve things I have never heard of. Perhaps you would find a different part of the US better for you. I have so many thoughts on this topic and feel strongly social media has made it harder for moms in the US. Unrealistic expectations in our faces all the time - a lot of the struggle is internal.
Thanks for participating in this conversation! The point of this all is to have a healthy debates:-) To clarify what I mean by equity - I understand that the way I think about it could be different from how you think about it - I'm talking about support structures set up by the government and states and cities that level the playing field for moms so we - and our children - all have access to opportunities & choices. And equality and rights guaranteed by law. So I'm not arguing that US has no equity, that's just a fact. For example: the only other countries without federal guarantees for paid maternity leave are Papua New Guinea, Micronesia, the Marshall Islands, Nauru, Palau, and Tonga. US is also the only country in the world that hasn't ratified UN's Rights of the Child treaty. However, if one accepts that and doesn't expect anything (i.e. equity as just given), then the conversation changes - in a transactional society, can we then buy that? what would it cost? where can we find it? This is where it gets really interesting. Who has managed to hack it, where and how did they find what they needed, and how did they managed to achieve balance, bandwidth and freedom of choice? I would love to hear more about how you or people you know have managed to get there (if you feel like you are there) and what do you think is a realistic or unrealistic expectation?
I’m an American who, almost a decade ago now, returned to the US from Stockholm with four young children (born in Sweden.) I never would have expected to experience culture shock in my country of birth but it was like stepping into a different (at times nightmarish) reality- the hardest period of my life. There is much to love here- particularly the creative, open minded, can-do people - but, if honest, the quality of life for our whole family diminished so significantly, it does not make sense to stay. Thanks for bringing light to some of these issues, it’s important 🙏
Hi Katie! Thanks so much for sharing that. I really see what you have experienced. I had the opposite shock: I went to live in Finland for a semester with my hubs and kids, and my first thought was, why didn't anyone tell me you could live like this (as a mom)?!! I also agree with you that there's a lot of good - like you said, the people - but for us to stay in the US, I feel like I don't want to "accept" the diminished quality of life. (I think that feeling has a lot to do with freedom in general for mothers and freedom of choice and just general ease of raising children in the Nordics, once you experience that, you can't not know what could be possible). If the only way to get it is transactional, I want to then buy it:-) But the cost... ? I;m not sure what it would be yet!! What are you thinking in terms of moving back? Staying a bit longer or already planning the move? PS. Sweden is definitely the leader and also Finland's inspiration in the best family policies in the world.